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Gerowen
04-12-2014, 12:00 AM
I've tried using two different mobile boxes on single side band, and they both sound like absolute garbage on SSB. A fatboy and one from RM Italy both sound good on AM, but flip them to SSB and it sounds over-modulated, off frequency, and like it wants to cut out between words even though the relays aren't kicking off. I did check to make sure that they were actually set to SSB so I was not sending an SSB signal through a box set to AM. Turn the linear off altogether and the radio by itself on SSB sounds crystal clear.

Do most linears sound bad on single side band?

Gerowen
04-12-2014, 01:11 AM
By the way I'm referring to transmit. I can still hear just fine on SSB, but when I had my wife talk on the base and got in my truck and drove down the road to do a test, that's when I found out what it sounded like on SSB with the box on. Turn the box off, no issues whatsoever.

I drove a quarter mile or so away to avoid issues with me being too close to the antenna.

222DBFL
04-12-2014, 01:44 AM
What class amps are they, bias a/b, b or class c. If they are class c amps they will sound bad on ssb. You need an amp with at least that is class b at least to run ssb. Check out xforce or TNT or Davemade, heck fat boy should know how to bias the amp for ssb use. But that is what it sounds like to me. Clean in equals clean out . Add a dirty signal anywhere in between will make for a dirty amplified signal. Most likely class c amps.
Any way to open the amps and get a couple of photos of the inside, or at least a photo of the amps in question. Again I will say this, I would not use a class c bias amp as the signal is dirty, class b is normally the minimum that works on ssb, class a/b being even better. Some of the older palomar amps had a/b stamped on them but I don't know if they were real class a/b amps. If you have and bought the fatboy amp new, send it back and ask for the amp to have the bias properly set for ssb use. I use a magnaforce 350hd 2 transistor amp that was made by xforce a while back. It's a class b bias amp. Works well for ssb use and in have been told several times it sounds like a rolling base station. Go anything below class b and they sound like garbage on ssb. Send that fat boy amp back and ask for something that will work on ssb or send the amp to a good amp builder and let him properly bias the amp for at least class b operation, a/b would even be better, you may not see the same watts as the class c amp, but the output signal is cleaner. And like I said clean in equals clean out. Hope this helps and you get everything straightened out. God bless.

Gerowen
04-12-2014, 11:24 AM
What class amps are they, bias a/b, b or class c. If they are class c amps they will sound bad on ssb. You need an amp with at least that is class b at least to run ssb. Check out xforce or TNT or Davemade, heck fat boy should know how to bias the amp for ssb use. But that is what it sounds like to me. Clean in equals clean out . Add a dirty signal anywhere in between will make for a dirty amplified signal. Most likely class c amps.
Any way to open the amps and get a couple of photos of the inside, or at least a photo of the amps in question. Again I will say this, I would not use a class c bias amp as the signal is dirty, class b is normally the minimum that works on ssb, class a/b being even better. Some of the older palomar amps had a/b stamped on them but I don't know if they were real class a/b amps. If you have and bought the fatboy amp new, send it back and ask for the amp to have the bias properly set for ssb use. I use a magnaforce 350hd 2 transistor amp that was made by xforce a while back. It's a class b bias amp. Works well for ssb use and in have been told several times it sounds like a rolling base station. Go anything below class b and they sound like garbage on ssb. Send that fat boy amp back and ask for something that will work on ssb or send the amp to a good amp builder and let him properly bias the amp for at least class b operation, a/b would even be better, you may not see the same watts as the class c amp, but the output signal is cleaner. And like I said clean in equals clean out. Hope this helps and you get everything straightened out. God bless.

I'm borrowing this one from a friend who is letting me use it, and he never uses SSB, he's just an old man who talks on AM and told me to keep it and use it until he needed it again. I will open it up however and take a picture of the guts for you to see if you can learn anything about it. I don't know much about them. Will try to get the pic up later this evening I'm about to head out the door. Thanks for getting back to me.

I don't "know" that this is a Fatboy. He said it was, and it is in a silver box like most of the other Fatboy amps I've seen, but it doesn't say Fatboy on it, so I'm not certain.

222DBFL
04-12-2014, 11:33 AM
If it doesn't have more than 1 switch then it probably doesn't work on ssb, normally a 2nd switch is added for ssb delay. Don't know if that helps, but I am pretty sure that ssb delay is an add on for most amps like that. More work involved. When you key up is there a delay? That's another way to tell if the amp has an ssb delay listen to it when you key up it should click or I should say you can hear the relay kicking in for ssb delay

Gerowen
04-12-2014, 12:06 PM
If it doesn't have more than 1 switch then it probably doesn't work on ssb, normally a 2nd switch is added for ssb delay. Don't know if that helps, but I am pretty sure that ssb delay is an add on for most amps like that. More work involved. When you key up is there a delay? That's another way to tell if the amp has an ssb delay listen to it when you key up it should click or I should say you can hear the relay kicking in for ssb delay

There's two switches, un-labeled. One turns the unit on, the other introduces a delay in the relays kicking out when you let off the key. I figured the side with the delay is for SSB. Also if you put it in the other position and talk on SSB the relays kick in and out constantly, pop pop pop pop.

222DBFL
04-12-2014, 12:14 PM
Okay then it does have ssb. Open it up and check for any burnt resistors. It may need to be re tuned. How many transistors does it have? There are a lot of variables, it may be being over driven or under powered, as in the size wire being used to the battery. Too many variables, take some photos of the radios used and the amp In question. This way at Least I can see what is what. Thanks and I will try to help as much as possible

222DBFL
04-12-2014, 12:15 PM
and also a quarter mile is too close, I would drive at least 10 miles away and try it, I can't run my 2 transistor amp locally as the guys around me get blown away and it will make you seem over modulated as well.

NY714
04-12-2014, 12:33 PM
FYI, there is more to making an amp sound good on SSB,more than putting in a relay switch. Internal works needs to be done to the Biasing. Alot of amp builder just put the switch and call it ready for SSB, doesn't work that way.

222DBFL
04-12-2014, 12:38 PM
Believe me i know that. Didn't know if the amp had ssb from the 1st post, was trying to help him out, but there may be nothing wrong with the setup, I think he needs to get further than a 1/4 mile from the house and get an audio check with an amp on. There is a lot of work that goes into making a proper amp for use on ssb, you are indeed correct, and there are not many amp builders that can do it right.

JesseJamesDallas
04-12-2014, 03:47 PM
Try backing off the SSB on the radio for less swing...I had to do that with my Cobra 2000 GTL so it wouldn't sound all choppy and over modulated...

Before, on SSB the 2000 was swinging about 20w's and sounded terrible with the Amp ON...Backed the SSB ALC pod back to where I was only swinging 8 to 9w's and now I sound crystal clear on SSB and with the Amp ON I'm seeing little over 200w's on SSB....Before the Amp was swinging 600+ watts, but sounded like garbage...This is a 1x3 tube box.

adjusting the ALC on SSB won't affect the AM side.

Tallman
04-12-2014, 05:51 PM
There is a lot of work that goes into making a proper amp for use on ssb, you are indeed correct, and there are not many amp builders that can do it right.
Ten-Four on that! A lot of companies can't do it right either. One company sells a "Class C" amp that works good on AM but sounds like crap on SSB.

222DBFL
04-12-2014, 06:40 PM
Coming to your town there tallman , working in the Louisville area for the next few weeks, maybe we could meet. Anyway god bless and thanks for the reply. I know amp building is becoming a lost art and like you said the ones that are out there some are in it just for the money not the passion of the hobby. At that point quality usually takes a back seat to quantity.

Gerowen
05-26-2014, 11:22 PM
Just to post an update, I've since changed linears altogether. I was going to buy that one, but the guy wanted more money than I was willing to pay, but I managed to trade for a better one. I believe the problem is just the increased output power at close range, because with this new box I've made several long distance contacts who complimented me on a strong signal with very clear audio.

I appreciate all the efforts to help me out, :-)

Looking at this post now, I never even realized that the 222DBFL who replied to this topic so much is the same one I've managed to make contact with the past 2 days, :P

222DBFL
05-26-2014, 11:32 PM
Yep that is me. Nothing special or big about my system, running the magnum 257hp with a magnaforce 350hd. Mic gain set to about 1/2-3/4. Works well or so I have been told. Thanks 323. My thanks goes to tallman for getting my radio right!! He is the man!! Anyway always a pleasure and will speak again soon mr. 323. God bless.

Gerowen
05-26-2014, 11:36 PM
If anybody is curious, the one I ended up trading for and keeping is a Power Deluxe 25A box. It plugs directly into a 110 AC outlet so I don't have to have a power supply, plus it has a built-in 25 amp power supply, however I'm running the radio off a separate 12 amp power supply because I noticed when I would talk on SSB, the radio's meter light would get a little dim like it was drawing a bit from the linear by both being powered by and running through the linear at the same time. Here's an updated pic of my setup.

Cobra 148 GTL (factory stock, no mods except replacement meter bulb)
Cobra (Highgear) MG M75 Power Mic
Cobra (Highgear) external speaker
Pyramid PS14KX power supply (for the radio)
Power Deluxe 25A linear
Solarcon A-99 antenna (not shown)

1772

222DBFL
05-26-2014, 11:44 PM
I am running an A99 with a pyrmamid ps12kx 10amp supply with my magnum 257hp in the house, no amp, just radio, works well too. Spend more time in my mobile as that is my get away for a few and I also work on the road quite a bit, so I spent more time on my mobile, not to say that the base isn't right, it works good as well, just don't have the extra power. 60-70 watts is what I get on ssb and my radio never gets hot. This is on the base setup, my mobile runs a bit more power pushing 75-90 watts on ssb. I keep a good brushless fan on all the time in the mobile. I have a fan on the base but don't have to use it much as the radio doesn't get warm as often. Anyway, again glad to speak to you 323 and will talk again soon!! God bless.

NY714
05-27-2014, 09:27 PM
I am running an A99 with a pyrmamid ps12kx 10amp supply with my magnum 257hp in the house, no amp, just radio, works well too. Spend more time in my mobile as that is my get away for a few and I also work on the road quite a bit, so I spent more time on my mobile, not to say that the base isn't right, it works good as well, just don't have the extra power. 60-70 watts is what I get on ssb and my radio never gets hot. This is on the base setup, my mobile runs a bit more power pushing 75-90 watts on ssb. I keep a good brushless fan on all the time in the mobile. I have a fan on the base but don't have to use it much as the radio doesn't get warm as often. Anyway, again glad to speak to you 323 and will talk again soon!! God bless.

I used to run that antenna, would recommend going to 1/2 wave or .64 wave Imax 2000 with ground plane, will notice big difference over the A99 1/4 wave. Do some research and you will see what I mean. In a house you sound be safe up to a straight 4 pill amp as long as use good coax like Times Microwave (LMR-400) and a good grounding system (9 foot grounding rods into ground) and should bother the neighbors at all. Then you will notice much better on receive and big difference on transmit from base. Also depends how high your location is above sea level and how high you can mount the antenna off ground. The combination of those 2 heights also help.

In car run just a 1x2 that does almost 300-400 watts, but again in mobile can always move and get to a high spot and it acts as a 4 pill or higher depending where car is located. Especially going over a bridge is really fun, get out like crazy. Or if go by the ocean amazing how it acts as relector and get out all over. Just a few tips.

PS - Don't recommend for house the 1x4 or 2x4, people always blow them up very touch amps and have to use very low deadkey and swing. One mistake and poof you will blow up amp, where the straight 4,6,8 pills can never blow or should I say much harder. In my car use a single final old Cobra 148GTL which is very weak that was why went with the 1x2 which made huge difference from the straight 2 pill.

222DBFL
05-28-2014, 01:05 AM
I am getting a TNT 600hd soon, it's an older one with red dot toshiba 2879's. Been keyed up very few times and never over driven. It is my brother I laws, picking it up soon. Going to use the magnum 257hp with it in the mobile. Now I gotta talk the boss into drilling a hole!! Anyway god bless and thanks for the info.

222DBFL
05-28-2014, 03:37 AM
And PS the amp mentioned above is for the Mobile. Going to get a larger supply for the house and use the magnaforce 2 pill at home. I am more interested in getting the 600hd right now though. Again thanks for the info. God bless.

NY714
05-28-2014, 05:32 AM
Also some food for thought is that power isn't everything. Modulation is very import and how you run the deadkey and swing from the radio. You could have a 2 pill set up right talk right over a 4 pill not running right deadkey and swing. Have to do the research, took me a while to realize that watts isn't always the key to a loud radio and heard many 300 watt radio talk over 500 watt radio's because they were matched correctly.

PS - Variable deadkey is a must in radio, Swing kit is also a must, & Modulation mod so your radio is capable of 100% modulation. Most stock radio will not have these abilities, so have to have the radio match the amp, in order to sound right. Just like a hot rod car that has 600 horsepower, if the transmission and rear doesn't match the car won't go fast.

222DBFL
05-28-2014, 05:41 AM
No doubt there 714, I am running a 2 pill now and it works well. Even with a single final radio like the 980 uniden, which is no powerhouse, but sounds clean as the amp is not overdriven!! I use my magnum 257hp as well but do lower the power on ssb as it makes the amp get warm. I like keeping my electronics cool. And also by doing this, the life of my amp will be longer than if I were hammering it all day long. I like to talk and talk I do. I will say this in ending m, before you spend a bunch on a big amp, get a good antenna system setup!! Make sure your vehicle is bonded well. And make sure you have adequate power to supply a larger amp, I.E., power cable, ground and coax. Your antenna system should come first though IMO. God bless

856
05-28-2014, 08:23 AM
From what I have learned so far I would say a good clean radio is the second most important thing next to a good antenna. Clean is mean and crap in = crap out.

I would like to be heard on the super bowl but I don't want to sound like a lot of the people I hear on the super bowl.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

222DBFL
05-28-2014, 08:25 AM
Yes sir, clean in equals clean out!!! No doubt about it.

856
05-28-2014, 08:30 AM
Yes sir, clean in equals clean out!!! No doubt about it.

I have a radio here I got from a well known shop that sounds like crap. I have to constantly adjust the mic gain and it sounds over driven without the amp on. I also have a radio that I got from an unknown local shop that I can run everything wfo and sound great. Live and learn I guess.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

NY714
05-28-2014, 03:58 PM
No doubt there 714, I am running a 2 pill now and it works well. Even with a single final radio like the 980 uniden, which is no powerhouse, but sounds clean as the amp is not overdriven!! I use my magnum 257hp as well but do lower the power on ssb as it makes the amp get warm. I like keeping my electronics cool. And also by doing this, the life of my amp will be longer than if I were hammering it all day long. I like to talk and talk I do. I will say this in ending m, before you spend a bunch on a big amp, get a good antenna system setup!! Make sure your vehicle is bonded well. And make sure you have adequate power to supply a larger amp, I.E., power cable, ground and coax. Your antenna system should come first though IMO. God bless

In general a 2 pill should be driven with a single final if a regular box like Texas Star. Those competitive boxes can handle a dual final like davemaid, x-force and fatboy. But just going to an Imax 2000 1/2 wave and a 4 pill with Times Microwave Coax you will notice night and day on transmission and receive. Don't feel need to go with a flat side big antenna or a metal antenna. In my area couldn't use those unless put up tower, the winds and gusts would take them right down that is why I stick to the .64 wave or 1/2 wave Imax 2000 with Ground kit. FYI.

222DBFL
05-28-2014, 07:16 PM
The 4 pill I am getting will be for my mobile. I already have times microwave lmr 400 to the house!! Lmr 240 for the mobile and all lmr400uf jumpers. Good stuff. I have no issues talking around the world right now. When conditions permit. I have my base setup with 3 10ft ground rods from work. And am using #2awg solid for grounding the pipes. Works well. I do know a little, I build cell sites for a living, and also trouble shoot them as well. Pays good but gotta travel a lot. Has it's perks though as when I am ready to step up I already have some ldf4 and din male connectors. For now the lmr400 does the job just fine though. Thanks for all the input ny714, it's very good info!! I have seen the .64 wave in action and they are sweet no doubt. My HOA is a POS and I have my a99 painted all black, the top section whip is black as well. Makes it a bit harder to see with all the trees out front. Gotta stick to the mobile for a bigger setup. It will come. I am in no rush as I already have everything I need, it's just a matter of putting back together. God bless and again thank you for all the info, you can always learn something new!!!!

rainman
12-29-2014, 01:20 PM
agreed that he is to close...1/4 mile...sounds like your splattering...probably sounds better from a distance..i recommend going on lsb on 38 and getting a long distance radio check.:lever: