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phantom_tb
06-19-2016, 11:48 AM
Recently got one of the new spt-500 verticals. Was wondering what all needs to be done to get it tuned for 11M before it goes up? Heard it's a booger. Also, anyone have luck with setting it up as a .64 wave? Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks.

222FL
06-19-2016, 12:18 PM
Depends on what you're using to tune it. As well as knowing how to use your equipment. And also read the manual twice and follow the directions to a T for tuning. There may be some fine tuning after all is said and done, but if you take you time and follow the instructions you should be just fine.


I'm just a CB'er, what do I know???

phantom_tb
06-19-2016, 01:25 PM
The manual says assemble to 19' and adjust top section, etc. I have no way to tune it on the ground so, that's why I was looking for specific info. Thanks just the same.

222FL
06-19-2016, 03:38 PM
With it at 19ft what is the resonant freq?? 27mhz. If this is the case, depending on where you talk at you may have to either lengthen or shorten the antenna. And to make sure it was said, make sure you matching section is out together correctly and is correct with all measurements. There should be a tuning guide in the manual. Is there not? Is so that is pretty crappy. These antenna have to be out together correctly to work correctly! Do some research. There aren't any magic tricks to make them work. Setting the antenna up per the manual will get you in the ballpark I'm sure. Like it says, you will have to fine tune it unless you know what length to set the tip for the freq you most often talk on. This is where I would set it for being resonant. Again, no magic here. Every install is different and what might work for me or someone else may not work for you.
There are just too many variables. JMHO. Wish you best of luck and be safe!!


I'm just a CB'er, what do I know???

JesseJamesDallas
06-19-2016, 08:29 PM
If it were me...I would mount it on a 6 or 8' pole first, then hook your coax up that your going to be using once it's in the air, and get it tuned at ground level first...It's allot easier to take down and tune if it's only on a short pole first.

Once in the air, it should still be close to what it was on the temporary pole...

222FL
06-19-2016, 11:12 PM
Yes. Do exactly what JJD has stated. Forgot to mention this. Thanks for catching that JJD. I think I got most of the other stuff right. Great info!! Again. Thx. This place has been pretty slow that is for sure. All the help one can get here is a good thing!!


I'm just a CB'er, what do I know???

222FL
06-20-2016, 04:48 AM
Also read up on how to ground your antenna mast and all equipment as well. Radio, Power supply, and so on. Also use good coax and a good surge arrestor. I have found the Huber Suhner EMP/surge/lightning arrestors work very well for me. And also some other locals as well. Just make sure you get the cooper mounting plate that is needed to ground it to a copper ground rod or ground buss bar. Polyphaser, Andrew, and some other companies make some good surge arrestors as well.
As far as grounding goes, look up how they ground commercial radio towers and cell site towers for a basic understanding of what a good grounding system should be and look like. You want at least 3 or more ground rods, and also use good wire like #2awg solid copper wire for all ground runs. And some forget to tie all the grounds together to form a single point ground system. Like I said, read up on this. It's no guarantee that you will not get hit by lightning or have a surge, but your equipment can be saved if you have the proper ground setup as well as the surge ar resorts in place.
And like I said before, take your time. In the end it will be worth the effort!! I promise you that!! Have a great one.


I'm just a CB'er, what do I know???

phantom_tb
06-24-2016, 05:14 PM
Again...thanks guys. Tried to do some math and think I'll go with 22'4.5". Hope that will get me about where I need to be.

222FL
06-26-2016, 03:03 AM
I see 2 different numbers here phantom_tb. One says 19ft., the other says 22ft 6in. This is from the hy-gain website itself and not the manual. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160626/51b27d1a51f1587ffd8dfd30123b3426.jpg
And the second photo is from the manual. Here it is.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160626/f133bf605fde7d0dd44471fd694ede99.jpg
With the knowing a true 5/8 wave antenna at 27.205MHz should be approx. 21.50ft for the radiator plus base length and also matching network and radials, I would go with what the hy-gain web site lists as their antenna length. Maybe the PDF is incorrect?? You can cross check this when you get the antenna by simply adding up the lengths of the vertical element when placed together, or see what the manual that comes with it says. So I added up the lengths in the PDF manual and got 17.7ft, this doesn't include the bottom base pipe length as there isn't one posted, but it appears to be about the same length as the other lengths of pipe. With that being said, antenna should be close to 21.5-22ft total length and not the 19ft that is posted in the PDF manual.
The radials appear to be the correct length, but not the vertical pipe lengths. Hope this helps clear up some confusion. Have a good day.
And also note in the pic from the manual and you'll see they don't give a measurement for the base vertical pipe. Just the ones above it to the tip.


I'm just a CB'er, what do I know???

222FL
06-26-2016, 03:15 AM
Also here is an antenna calculator I use that helps tremendously when building antennas. It's an approximation but will help with a starting point. I'll make one for 27.205 which is ch20 CB band.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160626/e815b3da99e50f6ef478a6bc7d330f5b.jpg
Again, hope this might help some.
Take your time putting the antenna together, making notes of what length you made every length of antenna pipe, use some corrosion X or no-ox special "A" for all bolts and connections minus the SO239. Also rub entire antenna down with it. Very light coat. This goes for either the corrosion X or the no-ox. Use good weather proofing at the antenna connection. Self amalgamating tape works well. Here is what it looks like and it won't stick to any of your connectors, just to itself. Not like butyl tape! After you apply the weather proofing then use some good 1/2" electrical tape over the weather proofing tape. Again, take your time and it will work well and last for a long time. Be safe and good day.


I'm just a CB'er, what do I know???

phantom_tb
06-27-2016, 03:36 PM
Holy, triple deuce, you've been a little busy! I also found that the old Penetrator 500's were 22'6" but the Crossbow .64 was only 22'. I'll keep working on this 'till I'm at ease. Thanks for your help and time. Have a good one.

Gas can
07-06-2016, 08:30 PM
Reading these posts shows the camaraderie of CB'ers across these United States. The common interest for each other gives the true meaning to CITIZENS BAND.

222FL
07-07-2016, 04:10 AM
And people don't think CB type people don't help each other. I've sent a lot of stuff out to people just to help them get on air!! Pay it forward man. And it's good karma!! JMHO. No reason to sit on a pile of things I will never use especially if they can help others with their install. And yes I have met people all along the east coast while traveling for my old profession for 17yrs as a cell site tech. Some of the best people I have ever met! Have a couple of real friends I made up in KY area. Had dinner and all with them. And still speak about daily still by forums or phone. Good stuff man!! Like you said, shows that there are people that still give a shi** about their fellow radio users. Yes there are always bad apples in every bunch, even on the amateur bands. But anyways. To all, have a great day. 73 and God Bless.
222 Daytona Bch., FL.


I'm just a CB'er, what do I know???

JAF0
10-16-2016, 03:40 PM
Recently got one of the new spt-500 verticals. Was wondering what all needs to be done to get it tuned for 11M before it goes up? Heard it's a booger. Also, anyone have luck with setting it up as a .64 wave? Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks.

Hey there,

I realize I'm Just Another Friggin' 0bserver, (in the swamp - LoL)

- but having had NUMEROUS Penetrators in the last 4+ decades, I can tell you this;

OEM, the original 23 ch P500 was designed for perfect resonance at 27.000 MHz, (dead center of the entire 26.0-28.0MHz 11m band) @ 22' 9.5"...

...to the screw on top which held the Four 9.5" rods (10" incl the loop ends)

...because the Penetrator500, (unlike the R/S .64 ) uses a Linear Loaded T-match, which uses the bottom 10" of the radiator, (beneath the counterpoise radials) as part of the matching network.

To have a nice flat SWR on the center of the 40 ch band you'll want to shorten the total length, (from the bottom of the coax connector to the top where the screw is for the top hat rods) to
22 feet, 7.625" WITH Four 9.5" top hat rods.

Goes something like this:

5/8 of a full wave length at 27.185 MHz =

.625 x 11803 (speed of light in MILLIONS OF INCHES per second) = 7376.875

7376.875 x .9979 (VF or Velocity Factor of aluminum in air) = 7361.4

7361.4 ÷ 27.185 = 270.8" minus 2.55" for average circumference of radiator = 268.25" (of aluminum radiator for a typical 5/8, but NOT the Penetrator500).

...continuing, 268.25" minus 9.5" (top hat rods) = 258.75"

258.75" + 12.875" (total length below radials) = 271.625" or 22 feet, 7.625" @ 27.185 MHz total length - from standing it on the ground on it's coax connector and measuring to the "tippy tip top" screw where the 9.5" long top hat rods connect.

On the original P500 the 9.5" top hat rods bent down at ~45° angle.

On the later 40 ch version they went straight out horizontally.

Now, some of the later 40 ch versions had a slightly different match length requiring slightly less (2"-5") length of the radiator so..., "YMMV"!

On my personal 1st Generation OEM Penetrator 500, I drop-kicked the top hat rods and extended the radiator 6.25" to utilize every bit of vertical height for maximum performance, tuned for 27.185MHz.

Without the top hat rods I noticed ZERO static increase, probably since static tends to bleed to ground via the ground shunt part of the matching network connected to both the feed point screw protruding from the bottom insulator and the end of the counterpoise radial to which the shunt is attached. (Some people screw-up when assembling and install the radial in the wrong direction).

As far as increased potential for corona discharge without the top hat radials, I don't run enough power to cause corona discharge, plus the antenna design won't handle the power usually necessary to effect corona discharge.

...not to mention the screw on top would still tend to cause corona discharge. You'd need a smooth, round surface to curtail it, such as the double circle on top of the New Vector 4000.

Hope this might help...
someone,
someday.

73

.

phantom_tb
10-19-2016, 03:35 PM
Thanks for the input JAFO. I went with the 45 degrees down angle for the Cap Hat Radials. Read an article a ham did after doing a good bit of tuning work with the new 500. It was something he suggested doing. I set mine up at 22' 4.5" 'cause I operate above 27.195. SWR's are 'bout 1.25:1 or less the higher I go. Great info, thanks again. 73's

JAF0
08-10-2017, 05:50 PM
Thanks for the input JAFO. I went with the 45 degrees down angle for the Cap Hat Radials. Read an article a ham did after doing a good bit of tuning work with the new 500. It was something he suggested doing. I set mine up at 22' 4.5" 'cause I operate above 27.195. SWR's are 'bout 1.25:1 or less the higher I go. Great info, thanks again. 73's Sorry for the rapid reply...

So I'd guesstimate about 27.500mhz for close to 1.0:1 swr?

The reason I dislike the downward bent top hat rods is because it's inverting the phase of the top 9.5" of the current and tends to cancel about 7" of the top of the radiator current, just below the top hat.
So instead of a full 265" of your 5/8 antenna height you'll end up with only about 249" effective, losing the top 16" which could be adding to the performance in improved receive capture area and overall height, sacrificing that little bit of top current being cancelled.

BOOTY MONSTER
08-10-2017, 06:58 PM
i prefer full length elements when possible . i also like larger diameter elements simply because the antenna is more durable . FWIU it makes very little to no electrical difference on these simple antennas , but the signal does travel on the surface of the elements ........

phantom_tb
08-12-2017, 05:24 PM
Holy Cow on the previous post, LOL. However, my wrong on a previous post. I meant to put 1.025:1 and that carries from about 27.345 to about 27.555. That's the best I see for SWR's. And OMG on the second of your posts. I'm no genius with all this stuff. I do the best I can with what I got and it works. Thanks for the feedback.

phantom_tb
08-12-2017, 05:28 PM
Also, I've used this setup with only 200 watts and talked to Australia from here. Must be doin' somethin' right. 73's all.

JAF0
08-24-2017, 04:02 AM
Also, I've used this setup with only 200 watts and talked to Australia from here. Must be doin' somethin' right. 73's all.

You bet you're doing it right, you don't have an A99, do ya'?!!?

...even though everyone knows you just can't beat an Antron A99 :lie:

phantom_tb
08-25-2017, 12:23 PM
LMAO! Yep your right...I don't. I have used one back in the mid '90s. I then went to the 2000. But I couldn't leave it up when they reintroduced the 500. 73s