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View Full Version : Everything I learned over the last 25 years is ....debunked?



Backwoodsman
11-22-2017, 11:30 PM
I have two horizontal wire dipoles and one sloped dipole out in my back yard for my base and i am not only shooting skip bit I am talkin with locals from 1 to 20 miles away!.....on horizontal antennas mostly. I have been led to understand that on AM or SSB....that a horizontal will not talk to a guy with a vertical antenna localy....but it is happening. Any input?.........
427 outa Omaha Nebraska....wabin a hand and standing by.......

this_is_nascar
11-23-2017, 06:07 AM
Conditions? I too have always been told the same thing.


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Backwoodsman
11-23-2017, 07:36 AM
Could be conditions.....but then again....it is anytime I turn the radio on.......incliding if i have a friend take a mobile and start at my driveway and just drive off in and random dirrection at any time.

222DBFL
11-23-2017, 08:18 AM
Yes you can use your horizontal dipole for local rag chewing. Just won’t have the distance a vertical antenna at the same height will. I was able to talk to most of my locals that were within 5-10 miles on my dipole which was horizontally setup at about 35-40 feet of the ground. On my vertical antenna I was able to talk out to about 60-70 miles unless the band was just full of DX or a lot of noise. Conditions always play a part in how an where your signal will end up and how far it will allow you talk. But like I said, you most likely won’t get out as well as a vertical antenna would locally. Hope this clears the air up some for you.

Backwoodsman
11-23-2017, 11:55 PM
Yes that helps.....thanx....maybe I will put the little tram up there too....

BOOTY MONSTER
01-17-2018, 09:52 AM
FWIU ....... horizontally polarized signals CAN propagate farther because they take better advantage of ground reflection than verticals . and FWIU horizontal beams have less noise/static than vertical beams . lots of documentation and minutia on this if anyone want's to research it . if you mainly want local contacts stick with a vertical antenna . if you want DX contacts the slight directivity of a simple dipole can be an advantage . the biggest beam antenna is simply a dipole antenna with one director and multiple reflectors on a big stick (appropriately spaced of course) . and yes , verticals can do a fine job with skip/long distance contacts ..... budget , taste and other considerations typically decide the routes we take in the RF hobby . most things work , some work better than others and where/how you install them will make differences so everybody won't have the same results , but generalized expectations can be gained from the results of others ........

BTW , any "antenna" will radiate , some better than others , minimizing loss is the name of the game .

Backwoodsman
01-17-2018, 08:25 PM
Why thank you for the -in put.....i will continue to build and expirament. Take care..

North7
03-09-2019, 03:18 PM
How well does the slope work, give you some of both?. I just built a dipole and a full wave loop, both going in the air soon as the snow goes here. Have not decided on orientation, built one for a friend 10 miles out so was going to put the dipoles horizontal, thinking if we are both horizontal it would work pretty good, and give us long distance ears as well. The full wave will be moved around a bit, just to try out some things.

Zero58
08-05-2019, 06:17 PM
Vert is mainly what base and mobile operators have..so you need a vert antenna to receive/talk to them. If your looking for long distance/Skip..you need a horz antenna..one..to get out there(even with a 3 watt radio)..but wit a horz(beam) antenna ...you will lose your locals on vertical. also..if your running any power..it will splatter on AM band on vertical.
My advise is.. Buy the Best Antenna that You can Afford,good coax, and see the improvement!

JesseJamesDallas
08-05-2019, 09:30 PM
Vert is mainly what base and mobile operators have..so you need a vert antenna to receive/talk to them. If your looking for long distance/Skip..you need a horz antenna..one..to get out there(even with a 3 watt radio)..but wit a horz(beam) antenna ...you will lose your locals on vertical. also..if your running any power..it will splatter on AM band on vertical.
My advise is.. Buy the Best Antenna that You can Afford,good coax, and see the improvement!
Totally not true...I have a MaCo Shooting Star 60' up and talk to locals all the time on it (vertical side)...And also run anywhere from 500 to 0ver 1K watts talking local with no problems what so ever... ONLY down side to using a beam for local talk, is your pretty much only going to be talking to guys on one end of town at a time in the direction the antenna is pointed...Lucky most of the guys I talk to are north, and NW to NE of me and my beam has a broad enough signal pattern to where I can pick up these guys without having to move the antenna...

If I want to talk to someone due east, west or south of me tho then I have to move the antenna.

222DBFL
08-06-2019, 06:01 AM
Have to agree with JJD. Had a local with a 3 element beat up at 85ft and could talk to whoever he liked around locally out to nearly 100 miles. Just swing it around to where you want it.

nosaj
08-06-2019, 04:41 PM
Smith charts for an antenna will also give you more of an understanding of how an antenna will perform
nosaj

mjd420nova
08-10-2019, 09:02 PM
Back in the end of the 70's , into the early 80's, A long john 5 element beam mounted horizontal with a big stick in the middle. Didn't matter, you could be heard on either polarization even when only feeding one. The take off angle from the big stick enabled skip on the short hop of 600 miles. A station 40 miles away had a 5 by 5 reading around sunset and sunrise with 25 PEP but took 100 PEP to get reliable daytime over that distance.

billengineer
01-08-2020, 06:52 PM
I have two horizontal wire dipoles and one sloped dipole out in my back yard for my base and i am not only shooting skip bit I am talkin with locals from 1 to 20 miles away!.....on horizontal antennas mostly. I have been led to understand that on AM or SSB....that a horizontal will not talk to a guy with a vertical antenna localy....but it is happening. Any input?.........
427 outa Omaha Nebraska....wabin a hand and standing by.......


You may be radiating from the coax feedline whith is acting as a vertical antenna. This is normally due tothe unballanced currents.

nosaj
01-08-2020, 07:23 PM
It is my understanding that you can do it, it's just not efficient. Square peg round hole.
Atmospheric conditions could be at play also.

nosaj
N1EBC

BOOTY MONSTER
01-08-2020, 08:06 PM
You may be radiating from the coax feedline whith is acting as a vertical antenna. This is normally due tothe unballanced currents.

if you're radiating enough signal from your coax for it to act as a vertical antenna you've got some really shitty coax and it needs to be replaced before you damage your transmitter/amp . the shield on coax is designed to keep the signal inside till it reaches the radiator . common mode currents can travel to the shield side of coax and radiate and typically cause problems with other nearby electronics but they don't travel far enough with enough energy to outperform a horizontal dipole or beam .

mjd420nova
01-09-2020, 11:27 AM
Conditions can change the polarization of a transmitted signal. Skip can switch the polarization. A slopped, long wire antenna is best but can become somewhat directional.